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Date:	12/7/99 6:08:29 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Tuesday, December 7 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1457<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: "Aslan" name debate again<BR>
Re: OT Flamebait: realism of war movies<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: Question<BR>
Re: Superpowers<BR>
Re: Postal stuff<BR>
re: SPOILERS: MTJ4 "Lords of Thunder"<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: Yet Another Keith Supplements Update...<BR>
Re: No go on Nova<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: Re CGI scripts<BR>
Re: Re : One of our worlds is missing!<BR>
Re: Deadfall Ordnance and Falling Rocks<BR>
Re: Deadfall Ordnance and Falling Rocks<BR>
Re: OT Flamebait: realism of war movies<BR>
Re: OT/Commercial: A few more trav items for sale<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
Changing Stereotypes<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 23:32:20 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: "Aslan" name debate again<BR>
<BR>
At 20:26 -0500 4/12/99, Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com> wrote:<BR>
>No, I seem to recall seeing it in another item - I want to say<BR>
>that it was a T4 number, but I also seem to recall that it was a<BR>
>"_recontact_ scenario", inside what we know of as the territory<BR>
>of the Third Imperium, and I'm not sure of the Fteirle-Human<BR>
>contact chronology.  Was contact made during the Ramshackle<BR>
>Empire era?  Or was first contact post-M:0?<BR>
<BR>
It was in 'The Long Way Home' in the 'Marks of Weakness' scenario. <BR>
P54 of the BITS edition. The Aslan are either referred to as <BR>
'Furballs' (by the humans) or 'Fteirle' (by themselves).<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 00:16:21 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT Flamebait: realism of war movies<BR>
<BR>
 "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> writes:<BR>
<BR>
>Douglas E. Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
>Yfirmaur, Konunglegur Gramm Floti<BR>
>Srstakur Vitsmunir jnusta<BR>
>Sameina Her: Rm, Sver Verld Sambandsmyndun<BR>
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
<BR>
On Eudora on a Mac, Yfirmaur has an Apple Logo before the 'ur' and <BR>
Sver has one after the 'Sver'...! Is this official Swordworldese?<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                       MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
   "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 00:07:50 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
At 21:31 -0500 6/12/99, "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:<BR>
>When I first saw it my friends (not ex-military) had to physically shut<BR>
>me up in the theatre. They were just _so_ incompentent. Next time I saw<BR>
>it I looked upon it as a comedy - much better that way.<BR>
><BR>
> > I saw it at a con, and when they had finally reached Fort Zindernuef, and<BR>
> > found that the Bugs ate brains, about three peole yelled "They're going to<BR>
> > starve on this bunch!"  All of us were infantry.  Two Army, one Marine. --<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I saw it immediately after reading the book, and was impressed by the <BR>
CGI and hated the adaption. I've seen it since, but have disconnected <BR>
the reasoning part of my brain before I watch it, which makes it nice <BR>
eye candy.<BR>
<BR>
Without the PoW sub-plot, why didn't they just nuke Lendathu from <BR>
orbit in the film, and what happened to air support and armour?<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 18:33:34 -0600<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Question<BR>
<BR>
>Noble families!  Your run-of-the-mill PC doesn't have much family,<BR>
>but a high nobleman *is* his family.  Maybe some rules such as appeared<BR>
>in "Pocket Empires" for fleshing out your family connections. . .<BR>
<BR>
Not only that -- I would like to see some noble families fleshed out. Not<BR>
single nobles as characters, but maybe several notable families described,<BR>
and one in detail.<BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
yikes@evansville.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 23:38:16 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Superpowers<BR>
<BR>
At 11:22 -0500 5/12/99, Simon Early <sre@taz.compulink.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
>Dom was right - it was coal dust, not combustion gases that were the problem<BR>
>at Sellafield.  I remember an article in New Scientist on the subject.  The<BR>
>problem was due to coal dust settling on surfaces near the detectors, which<BR>
>gave off enough radiation to trigger the sensors.<BR>
<BR>
That was the story my former colleagues in Health Physics and Mind <BR>
Control and the Projects Group told me... I'm glad to see it <BR>
corroborated somewhere..<BR>
<BR>
Cheers,<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 23:54:38 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Postal stuff<BR>
<BR>
At 15:11 -0500 6/12/99, "Jonathan Lupton" <jonathanlupton@hotmail.com> wrote:<BR>
>I have a copy too. It looks like a nice little game but I haven't had chance<BR>
>to play it yet.<BR>
><BR>
>The movement system is a bit different to "normal" traveller with ships only<BR>
>being able to travel along specified jump routes but they can make as many<BR>
>jumps per turn as they like until they reach an enemy ship or can't refuel.<BR>
<BR>
The game rules are basically the same as those in the GDW Terran/Ziru <BR>
Sirka wargame 'Imperium', except the Imperium board is fixed and the <BR>
game more cyclic (stop/start) to simulate the Interstellar wars.<BR>
<BR>
Apparently, Imperium is about to be re-released - I can't remember <BR>
who by though? Anyone on sfconsim-l remember who?<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 23:49:26 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: SPOILERS: MTJ4 "Lords of Thunder"<BR>
<BR>
At 7:15 -0500 6/12/99, shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson) wrote:<BR>
> >Kirur, the K'Kree then attacked the main base on Kirrixur using TL 9<BR>
><BR>
>Per MTJ4, ~20,000 years separate Acts One & Two. Persistent, aren't they?<BR>
><BR>
>  Mind you, a half-ton of beef with a sharp stick is worrying enough,<BR>
>until you realize that they travel in groups :)<BR>
<BR>
Wait for "SpaceDogs II". Set ten years after "SpaceDogs" our heroes <BR>
get to go and see some big, big ships.<BR>
<BR>
Woof! Woof! Moo!<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 00:03:47 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
At 21:31 -0500 6/12/99, "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
> >ObTrav:  I desperately want to run a Trav campaign based on South Park.<BR>
> >Suggestions welcomed.<BR>
><BR>
>OhmyGod, they killed Strephon!  You BASTARDS!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Well, the BITS Traveller Fun Tournament at GenCon UK 99 was 'Starship <BR>
Marines in Battledress', a blend of Starship Troopers, MiB, hints of <BR>
South Park, a large twist of Famille Spofulam and Red Dwarf. Shame we <BR>
can't print them and sell it...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 00:09:10 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Yet Another Keith Supplements Update...<BR>
<BR>
At 21:31 -0500 6/12/99, "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net> wrote:<BR>
> > You're going away for thirteen months?<BR>
><BR>
>I'm glad to know that someone else out there knows how<BR>
>to keep time.  You know, I blame it on public schools (and<BR>
>the advertsers).  It's just this sort of muddy thinking that<BR>
>would lead to a *year* zero (0) in 3I.<BR>
<BR>
You know there's a good reason for the year 0...<BR>
<BR>
and in the UK, public schools are privately owned and run.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 00:51:26 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: No go on Nova<BR>
<BR>
At 19:26 -0500 7/12/99, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>
>You are apparently unaware that "nova" is a word in Spanish. And it<BR>
>doesn't mean anything *like* "won't go". New? Something like that.<BR>
<BR>
The nearest word I can find in my dictionary is 'novato' which is <BR>
inexperienced/beginner. Aren't there some native speakers on the list <BR>
who could help? Carlos?<BR>
<BR>
And the 'no va' issue *is* the reason that Vauxhall UK's Marketeers <BR>
gave for the name change to 'Corsa'.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 16:47:47 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Because they always take just enough redshirts with them to draw fire.<BR>
><BR>
> I can just see it now: "Star Trek the Outtakes"<BR>
><BR>
> "Ensign Redshirt, report for Landing party duty!"<BR>
><BR>
> Next we see Ensign Redshirt bein physically dragged down the corridor..."I<BR>
> don't wanna diiiiieeeee!!!", with security crew calling out on the comms<BR>
> "Dead Man Walking!" <BR>
><BR>
> ;-)<BR>
<BR>
There are *several* filk songs on the topic, including "Security<BR>
Blues". <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 16:50:13 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re CGI scripts<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Wed, 8 Dec 1999, Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> On 7 Dec 99, at 9:31, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>>> Well supported is sort of an oxymoron. Being in NZ you probably<BR>
>>> aren't aware just *what* "uswest" *is*. It's the regional *phone<BR>
>>> company*. Need I say more?<BR>
>> <BR>
>> "Shrug" The two biggest ISPs in NZ are wholely owned subsidaries of the <BR>
>> two major telephone companies. The one I'm with gets quite a lot of its <BR>
>> business by running the local telephone/cable TV company's internet <BR>
>> service.<BR>
><BR>
> Also, don't forget, the most common name for US West is US Pest, and this<BR>
> is whether you're buying voice or data services from them.<BR>
<BR>
Not around here it isn't! Try "US Worst"...<BR>
<BR>
> This is a phone company that cannot guarantee that 911 works.<BR>
><BR>
> Scary real incident: a guy (who has been voiciferously compaining about<BR>
> US Pest to the local regulatory agencies, btw) is working on his car. Car<BR>
> falls off the jacks, pinning him under it. He reaches his cell phone,<BR>
> dials 911. Repeatedly. <BR>
><BR>
> Neighbor three blocks away cannot figure out why the Police are showing up<BR>
> at their door, saying that 911 has been dialed from there. This happens<BR>
> once _while_ the cops are there, talking to the homeowners, pohone in<BR>
> plain sight, NOT BEING USED.  <BR>
><BR>
> Finally, the people happen to remember that<BR>
> they get calls that are supposed to be for this neighbor, tell police to<BR>
> check out _that_ address.<BR>
><BR>
> US Pest finally admits that there _might_ be some minor bug in their<BR>
> phone system. <BR>
<BR>
I used to know someone who worked as a tech for them. Up until recently<BR>
the techs had to work *mandatory* overtime. Average workweek was 60<BR>
hours. <BR>
<BR>
Why? Because to save money they'd laid off most of the *original* tech<BR>
staff, and paying overtime is cheaper than providing benefits to new<BR>
employees. <BR>
<BR>
Of course, this overlooks little details like "burnout". <BR>
<BR>
The Oregon *and* Washington Public Utility Commissions (PUCs) are<BR>
getting on US West for poor service, including things like taking<BR>
months to install new lines or weeks to fixed bad lines. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 17:10:02 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re : One of our worlds is missing!<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
><BR>
>> The original government type M goes back to CT and was meant to refer to<BR>
>> government by the Military, usually following a coup, ie Uganda under Idi<BR>
>> Amin etc.<BR>
><BR>
> Ming the Merciless had to exercise considerable restraint after the coup<BR>
> not to assume the title "General Doctor Minister President-for-Life".  <BR>
<BR>
Not really. Ming was a lot of things. But he wasn't *tacky*. And *that*<BR>
title is truly tacky.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 17:15:22 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Deadfall Ordnance and Falling Rocks<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> All:<BR>
><BR>
> Okay, I'm confused....I tried to understand this stuff some time ago and<BR>
> still haven't gotten it straight.<BR>
><BR>
> So, where can I go to get the correct formulas for calculating what damage<BR>
> a falling rock will do from space and a piece of "streamlined" deadfall<BR>
> ordnance.<BR>
><BR>
> I already know what damage a Minuteman RV , a Davy Crocket missile and a<BR>
> 280mm shell in terms of nuclear destruction.  I just want to get to the<BR>
> equivalents or the formulae.  To be honest, every time I have visited the<BR>
> Traveller FAQs, I can never seen to get the answer I want.<BR>
<BR>
From the sci.space FAQ:<BR>
<BR>
    NUMBERS<BR>
<BR>
	7726 m/s	 (8000)  -- Earth orbital velocity at 300 km altitude<BR>
	3075 m/s	 (3000)  -- Earth orbital velocity at 35786 km (geosync)<BR>
	6371 km		 (6400)  -- Mean radius of Earth<BR>
	6378 km		 (6400)  -- Equatorial radius of Earth<BR>
	1738 km		 (1700)  -- Mean radius of Moon<BR>
	5.974e24 kg	 (6e24)  -- Mass of Earth<BR>
	7.348e22 kg	 (7e22)  -- Mass of Moon<BR>
	1.989e30 kg	 (2e30)  -- Mass of Sun<BR>
	3.986e14 m^3/s^2 (4e14)  -- Gravitational constant times mass of Earth<BR>
	4.903e12 m^3/s^2 (5e12)  -- Gravitational constant times mass of Moon<BR>
	1.327e20 m^3/s^2 (13e19) -- Gravitational constant times mass of Sun<BR>
	384401 km	 ( 4e5)  -- Mean Earth-Moon distance<BR>
	1.496e11 m	 (15e10) -- Mean Earth-Sun distance (Astronomical Unit)<BR>
<BR>
	1 megaton (MT) TNT = about 4.2e15 J or the energy equivalent of<BR>
	about .05 kg (50 g) of matter. Ref: J.R Williams, "The Energy Level<BR>
	of Things", Air Force Special Weapons Center (ARDC), Kirtland Air<BR>
	Force Base, New Mexico, 1963. Also see "The Effects of Nuclear<BR>
	Weapons", compiled by S. Glasstone and P.J. Dolan, published by the<BR>
	US Department of Defense (obtain from the GPO).<BR>
<BR>
    EQUATIONS<BR>
<BR>
	Where d is distance, v is velocity, a is acceleration, t is time.<BR>
	Additional more specialized equations are available from:<BR>
<BR>
	    ftp://ftp.cs.unc.edu/pub/users/leech/FAQ/MoreEquations.gz<BR>
<BR>
	For constant acceleration<BR>
	    d = d0 + vt + .5at^2<BR>
	    v = v0 + at<BR>
	  v^2 = 2ad<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
    COMPUTING CRATER DIAMETERS FROM EARTH-IMPACTING ASTEROIDS<BR>
<BR>
    Astrogeologist Gene Shoemaker proposes the following formula, based on<BR>
    studies of cratering caused by nuclear tests. Units are MKS unless<BR>
    otherwise noted; impact energy is sometimes expressed in nuclear bomb<BR>
    terms (kilotons TNT equivalent) due to the origin of the model.<BR>
<BR>
    D = Sg Sp Kn W^(1/3.4)<BR>
	Crater diameter, meters. On Earth, if D > 3 km, the crater is<BR>
	assumed to collapse by a factor of 1.3 due to gravity.<BR>
<BR>
    Sg = (ge/gt)^(1/6)<BR>
	Gravity correction factor cited for craters on the Moon. May hold<BR>
	true for other bodies. ge = 9.8 m/s^2 is Earth gravity, gt is<BR>
	gravity of the target body.<BR>
<BR>
    Sp = (pa/pt)^(1/3.4)<BR>
	Density correction factor for target material relative to the Jangle<BR>
	U nuclear crater site. pa = 1.8e3 kg/m^3 (1.8 gm/cm^3) for alluvium,<BR>
	pt = density at the impact site. For reference, average rock on the<BR>
	continental shields has a density of 2.6e3 kg/m^3 (2.6 gm/cm^3).<BR>
<BR>
    Kn = 74 m / (kiloton TNT equivalent)^(1/3.4)<BR>
	Empirically determined scaling factor from bomb yield to crater<BR>
	diameter at Jangle U.<BR>
<BR>
    W = Ke / (4.185e12 joules/KT)<BR>
	Kinetic energy of asteroid, kilotons TNT equivalent.<BR>
<BR>
    Ke = 1/2 m v^2<BR>
	Kinetic energy of asteroid, joules.<BR>
<BR>
    v = impact velocity of asteroid, m/s.<BR>
	2e4 m/s (20 km/s) is common for an asteroid in an Earth-crossing<BR>
	orbit.<BR>
<BR>
    m = 4/3 pi r^3 rho<BR>
	Mass of asteroid, kg.<BR>
<BR>
    r = radius of asteroid, m<BR>
<BR>
    rho = density of asteroid, kg/m^3<BR>
	3.3e3 kg/m^3 (3 gm/cm^3) is reasonable for a common S-type asteroid.<BR>
<BR>
    For an example, let's work the body which created the 1.1 km diameter<BR>
    Barringer Meteor Crater in Arizona (in reality the model was run<BR>
    backwards from the known crater size to estimate the meteor size, but<BR>
    this is just to show how the math works):<BR>
<BR>
	r = 40 m	    Meteor radius<BR>
	rho = 7.8e3 kg/m^3  Density of nickel-iron meteor<BR>
	v = 2e4 m/s	    Impact velocity characteristic of asteroids<BR>
				in Earth-crossing orbits<BR>
	pt = 2.3e3 kg/m^3   Density of Arizona at impact site<BR>
<BR>
	Sg = 1		    No correction for impact on Earth<BR>
	Sp = (1.8/2.3)^(1/3.4) = .93<BR>
	m = 4/3 pi 40^3 7.8e3 = 2.61e8 kg<BR>
	Ke = 1/2 * 2.61e8 kg * (2e4 m/s)^2<BR>
	   = 5.22e16 joules<BR>
	W = 5.22e16 / 4.185e12 = 12,470 KT<BR>
	D = 1 * .93 * 74 * 12470^(1/3.4) = 1100 meters<BR>
<BR>
    More generally, one can use (after Gehrels, 1985):<BR>
<BR>
    Asteroid	    Number of Impact probability  Impact energy as multiple<BR>
    diameter (km)   Objects    (impacts/year)	    of Hiroshima bomb<BR>
    -------------   --------- ------------------  -------------------------<BR>
     10			10	 10e-8		    1e9 (1 billion)<BR>
      1		       1e3	 10e-6		    1e6 (1 million)<BR>
      0.1	       1e5	 10e-4		    1e3 (1 thousand)<BR>
<BR>
    The Hiroshima explosion is assumed to be 13 kilotons.<BR>
<BR>
    Finally, a back of the envelope rule is that an object moving at a speed<BR>
    of 3 km/s has kinetic energy equal to the explosive energy of an equal<BR>
    mass of TNT; thus a 10 ton asteroid moving at 30 km/sec would have an<BR>
    impact energy of (10 ton) (30 km/sec / 3 km/sec)^2 = 1 KT.<BR>
<BR>
    References:<BR>
<BR>
    Clark Chapman and David Morrison, "Cosmic Catastrophes", Plenum Press<BR>
	1989, ISBN 0-306-43163-7.<BR>
<BR>
    Gehrels, T. 1985 Asteroids and comets. _Physics Today_ 38, 32-41. [an<BR>
	excellent general overview of the subject for the layman]<BR>
<BR>
    Shoemaker, E.M. 1983 Asteroid and comet bombardment of the earth. _Ann.<BR>
	Rev. Earth Planet. Sci._ 11, 461-494. [very long and fairly<BR>
	technical but a comprehensive examination of the<BR>
	 subject]<BR>
<BR>
    Shoemaker, E.M., J.G. Williams, E.F. Helin & R.F. Wolfe 1979<BR>
	Earth-crossing asteroids: Orbital classes, collision rates with<BR>
	Earth, and origin. In _Asteroids_, T. Gehrels, ed., pp. 253-282,<BR>
	University of Arizona Press, Tucson.<BR>
<BR>
    Cunningham, C.J. 1988 _Introduction to Asteroids: The Next Frontier_<BR>
	(Richmond: Willman-Bell, Inc.) [covers all aspects of asteroid<BR>
	studies and is an excellent introduction to the subject for people<BR>
	of all experience levels. It also has a very extensive reference<BR>
	list covering essentially all of the reference material in the<BR>
	field.]<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 20:36:44 -0500<BR>
From: Juliean Galak <jg42@cornell.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Deadfall Ordnance and Falling Rocks<BR>
<BR>
At 05:15 PM 12/7/99 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> From the sci.space FAQ:<BR>
><BR>
>     NUMBERS<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
Wow!  That's a great post.  Definitely one for the archives....<BR>
<BR>
           -- Juliean Galak (a.k.a. Falcon)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
jg42@cornell.edu        "I do not agree with a word you say, but I will<BR>
                          defend to the death your right to say it."<BR>
                                              -- Francois Marie Voltaire<BR>
#include <disclaimer.h> "Imagination is more important than knowledge"<BR>
                          			     -- Albert Einstein<BR>
for PGP public-key and<BR>
more quotes, http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/plan.htm<BR>
WWW Page: http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/                <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 17:46:00 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT Flamebait: realism of war movies<BR>
<BR>
Doug Berry wrote:<BR>
> Those eight guys were Rangers, American Commandos. <BR>
> They were they best<BR>
> that we had to offer, and in a situation like they<BR>
> found themselves in,<BR>
> everybody would shoot.  They were also veterans<BR>
> already.. obviously the<BR>
> sergeant had been in the war since '42!<BR>
<BR>
That's quite true, such units did have a higher rate<BR>
of firers than line infantry units - but still, it<BR>
wasn't 100%. They had a higher rate because they were<BR>
better trained, firing at silhouettes of men instead<BR>
of just targets, so that when they saw a figure,<BR>
they'd fire.<BR>
<BR>
The Army has learned to condition you to kill - but<BR>
not how to make you feel good about it afterwards.<BR>
<BR>
If you read the Grossman book I referred you to,<BR>
you'll see that time in combat (like the sergeant you<BR>
mention) has no affect on whether you fire or not.<BR>
Also, neither does the situation, by which I presume<BR>
you mena that anyone will fire if their life depends<BR>
on it, if a screaming bayonet-weilding maniac is<BR>
charging towards you. You'd think it's true, but it's<BR>
not. Many people would rather die than kill. Ask themn<BR>
before the battle, and they'll say, "of course I'd<BR>
kill," but when faced by the reality, they're more<BR>
reluctant. I could give instances, but I'll settle for<BR>
a personal instance, and then leave it to the book,<BR>
which is far more scholarly and knowledgeable than I<BR>
could ever be.<BR>
<BR>
Over in Somalia we had pretty scrict rules of<BR>
engagement, that we couldn't fire unless fired upon,<BR>
or unless they were pointing their weapons directly at<BR>
us and wouldn't put them down when called upon to stop<BR>
(ie just like cops). A section from my platoon was on<BR>
patrol and spotted a couple Somali lads fleeing from<BR>
the patrol, looking suspicious. As it was a crowded<BR>
market place the patrol couldn't pull out their<BR>
weapons and start shouting, so they approached the<BR>
men, the scout put his hand on one man's shoulder and<BR>
spun him around. The man shoved a Sterling<BR>
submachinegun into the Aussie's belly and pulled the<BR>
trigger. Click. It turned out later the round was<BR>
hardstruck (which happens to less than 1 in 100,000<BR>
rounds). Now the Aussie was perfectly justified within<BR>
the rules of engagement, aussie military and civilian<BR>
law, and basic common sense, in shooting this guy.<BR>
Instead, he buttstroked him with his rifle and<BR>
disarmed him.<BR>
<BR>
"He was sensible, he used minimum force," you might<BR>
say. But bear in mind that this soldier's _training_<BR>
was to kill, and we went over there actually expecting<BR>
a conventional war, that's what we were briefed for.<BR>
But what this story demonstrates is that if given any<BR>
other option, most men will not kill.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry to do anything to risk your pride in your<BR>
"elite" units, but I still think there would have been<BR>
a majority of non-firers. <BR>
<BR>
The proportion rose due to training methods from 10%<BR>
to 95% from WWII to Vietnam, and Grossman's thinking<BR>
is that this is the true cause of PTSD: not what has<BR>
been done to you, but what you have done.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: this will be more so in the future, since the<BR>
intensity of operations will be greater, the<BR>
battlefiled larger, more dangerous, and louder than<BR>
before (the progression that has occurred throughout<BR>
the centuries). How does the Imperium treat its burned<BR>
out soldiers? Its retured soldiers? Once full-time<BR>
service appeared, nations ahd to provide pensions etc,<BR>
since a group of disgruntled ex-servicemen who only<BR>
know how to fight can be a problem....<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 20:57:02 -0500<BR>
From: "David L. Pulver" <dlpulver@kos.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Commercial: A few more trav items for sale<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
><BR>
>But why would I want you to post them to Canada... I'm in the UK <g,d &r><BR>
><BR>
>[BTW, I think you also mean *winning* bidder, it's a bit rich if you have to<BR>
>pay postage just for bidding... <g>]<BR>
><BR>
>Good luck with the sales,<BR>
<BR>
Yep:  "postage *from* Canada" and "winning bidder" it is... Wouldn't want<BR>
to scare anyone off!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:07:10 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <cyhiggin@pipeline.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
> At 01:06 PM 12/6/1999 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
 <BR>
> With a Sergeant who will see movement on a ridge and not alert his<BR>
> formation!!  Aiigghh!!  That movie was so BAD!!  Must.. control.. fist..<BR>
> of...Death...<BR>
> <BR>
> I saw it at a con, and when they had finally reached Fort Zindernuef, and<BR>
> found that the Bugs ate brains, about three peole yelled "They're going to<BR>
> starve on this bunch!"  All of us were infantry.  Two Army, one Marine.<BR>
<BR>
We're all ex-Navy in this house.  We just kept saying, "Yeah,<BR>
the M.I. are definitely jarheads. See the screwthreads on their<BR>
foreheads?"<BR>
<BR>
				--me<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 06:51:33 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <cyhiggin@pipeline.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
> At 10:22 PM 12/6/1999 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >action-packed science-fiction black comedies. I'm utterly confused by anyone<BR>
> >who expected this movie to be serious or in any way accurate.<BR>
> <BR>
> Many of us hoped that a movie called "Robert Heinlein's Starship Troopers"<BR>
> would have more resemblance to the book than a few names and a sketched out<BR>
> plot.  Ginny Heinlein tried to have The Master's name removed after seeing<BR>
> a pre-release print.<BR>
<BR>
I would have, too. I finally rented the damn thing, and was appalled.<BR>
Complete waste of money, IMHO. I wish they'd had more Buffy videos to<BR>
rent, instead.  It inspired me to re-read "Starship Troopers" for the<BR>
first time in 15 years, so not a total loss, I guess.  I was really<BR>
p-o'd after re-reading the book, because the movie seems to have been<BR>
a systematic attempt to destroy the book.  Dialog and themes and imagery<BR>
were subtly used to distort and twist the message of the book 180 degrees<BR>
to the opposite; it was too systematic to be directorial incompetence--<BR>
he was trying to trash the whole philosophy of the book, or at least<BR>
make sure no one would read it who had any sympathy for the ideas therein.<BR>
That film is evil.<BR>
<BR>
				--me<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 07:04:42 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <cyhiggin@pipeline.com><BR>
Subject: Changing Stereotypes<BR>
<BR>
> >> I watched the first part and the usual caveats about banking space<BR>
> >> fighters,<BR>
> >    This will be in sci-fi forever, IHMO.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Actually, I'm not sure about this.  I imagine it will be in SF (I thought<BR>
> aficionados were supposed to balk at the term 'sci-fi'?) *until* we're<BR>
> doing it for real and see how 'fake' banking fighters look.  Kind of like<BR>
> how Buck Rogers spaceships looked ok at the time (I presume) and now look<BR>
> hopelessly dated (or even classic Trek computers etc.).<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
_Jurassic Park_ will be the classic example of a movie that changed<BR>
a popular stereotype.  Pre-JP, almost all RPG supplements (and prolly<BR>
movies & TV) said things like "we know scientists think that dinosaurs<BR>
were really agile critters who didn't wallow in swamps, but the<BR>
traditional image is that they're slow behmoths that soak in swamps<BR>
like they were hot tubs, so we're writing up our dinosaurs with the<BR>
traditional abilities, because it will be more 'fun' that way".<BR>
<BR>
Post-JP, slow hot-tub wallowers look so damn fake, and would get<BR>
laughed out of any RPG session I was in.  (Slow, stupid dinosaurs<BR>
are more "fun" & "exciting" than being chased down by a pack of<BR>
ravenous raptors? Come again?) The public perception of<BR>
dinosaurs has changed, thanks to Jurassic Park.<BR>
<BR>
It won't take real space travel, just a really good movie to <BR>
change public perception.  Face it, spaceships didn't bank in<BR>
space or go "whoosh" until AFTER "Star Wars". (BTW, in the Star<BR>
Wars game, they have an explanation for that--the "whoosh" is<BR>
actually a sensor queue to the pilot that he's got other vehicles<BR>
in close proximity--apparently, in the Star Wars universe they've<BR>
done some major work on using all 5 senses to overcome the "visual<BR>
overload" problem modern fighter pilots have...)<BR>
<BR>
			--Cynthia<BR>
<BR>
			<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1457<BR>
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